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Ralf Schumacher: "Spanningen binnen Ferrari kunnen Vettel de kop kosten"

  • Gepubliceerd op 22 nov 2019 10:55
  • comments 48
  • Door: Bjorn Smit

Ferrari heeft een broeiend conflict tussen haar coureurs. Mocht de situatie in 2020 niet verbeteren, dan kan dat volgens Ralf Schumacher het einde van het tijdperk Sebastian Vettel bij het team betekenen.

Voorafgaand aan 2019 nam Ferrari de beslissing om Charles Leclerc te promoveren naar het team, wat ten koste ging van Kimi Raikkonen. Leclerc werd daarmee de nieuwe teamgenoot van Vettel, maar tot dusver is die combinatie een explosieve gebleken. Het niveau van de coureurs ligt over het algemeen dicht bij elkaar en dat zorgt af en toe voor problemen.

Schumacher verwacht 'lastige interne discussie'

Eerder dit seizoen was er regelmatig gesteggel over het wel of niet uitvaardigen van teamorders, terwijl er ook in de Aziatische toer van de Formule 1 wat spanningen ontstonden. Die leken net gekalmeerd te zijn, toen Leclerc en Vettel met elkaar botsten in Brazilië. Mocht de situatie richting en in 2020 verder escaleren, dan kan dat volgens Schumacher het einde betekenen voor Vettel bij Ferrari. Dat vertelde hij aan Sky Deutschland.

"Ik geloof dat er een lastige interne discussie gaat komen, omdat Binotto langzaamaan onder druk komt te staan. Ferrari heeft ten slotte andere problemen dan teamgenoten die elkaar constant in de haren vliegen. Ze hebben allebei die verantwoordelijkheid. Ze zijn allebei oud genoeg. Het is volgens mij serieus genoeg dat Ferrari mogelijk gaat denken aan het doorvoeren van veranderingen als het niet beter wordt en er geen duidelijke verplichtingen zijn."

Voor Schumacher is het ook duidelijk welke verandering Ferrari in dat geval zal doorvoeren: Leclerc mag waarschijnlijk aanblijven, terwijl Vettel het veld zal moeten ruimen. "Het zal erg lastig voor worden voor allebei, maar in het bijzonder voor Sebastian. Als ze geen oplossing kunnen vinden, dan is het duidelijk dat de toekomst bij Charles ligt."

Reacties (48)

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  • Naldor

    Posts: 716

    Ze gaan Vettel de kop kosten. Hoop dat die volgend jaar wereldkampioen wordt en dan een Rosbergje doet waarna Ferrari in 2021 een 2014tje doet.

    • + 3
    • 22 nov 2019 - 11:05
    • Cicero

      Posts: 696

      je zult zelf je post hopelijk wel begrijpen ^^

      • + 3
      • 22 nov 2019 - 11:41
    • Mojito

      Posts: 4.843

      En jij bedoelt met je post een kleuterklasje te doen?

      • + 0
      • 22 nov 2019 - 12:03
    • Rimmer

      Posts: 7.174

      Cicero, Ik zal het even in begrijpelijke taal uitleggen;
      Ze hopen dat Rosberg in 2021 naar Ferrari komt zodat ze 2014 eindelijk hun kopzorgen kunnen vergeten want Vettel hoopt dat hij volgend jaar een hoop kosten minder heeft.
      Duidelijk zo?

      • + 2
      • 22 nov 2019 - 12:33
    • Trulla

      Posts: 1.355

      Ik heb die lap tekst niet gelezen, maar als Schumacher zo onvrijwillig weg moest bij Ferrari, waarom stond Michael dan zo vaak aan de Ferrari pitmuur in 2007? Ik kan me niet voorstellen dat Michael dan nog zich laat gebruiken voor het 2007 seizoen.

      • + 0
      • 22 nov 2019 - 13:15
    • Trulla

      Posts: 1.355

      Bah, verkeerde comment.

      • + 0
      • 22 nov 2019 - 13:16
    • Snork

      Posts: 7.001

      Sjezus, als ik naar bovenstaande reacties kijk, is het nu echt serieus tijd voor weekend.

      • + 0
      • 22 nov 2019 - 15:01
    • ik sla vanavond een paar biertjes achterover en dan ga ik bovenstaande reactie nog eens goed doorlezen, misschien begrijp ik ze dan wel..

      • + 0
      • 22 nov 2019 - 15:04
    • Sun-Tzu

      Posts: 2.321

      Zo onduidelijk is Naldor toch niet? Het is mij iig vrij duidelijk. Zou het aan de vrijdagmiddag liggen?

      • + 1
      • 22 nov 2019 - 16:03
    • snailer

      Posts: 3.170

      Ik heb duidelijk een groot gebrek.... aan intelligentie. Of ik begin af te takelen. Dat kan natuurlijk ook.
      Quote: "Ze hopen dat Rosberg in 2021 naar Ferrari komt zodat ze 2014 eindelijk hun kopzorgen kunnen vergeten want Vettel hoopt dat hij volgend jaar een hoop kosten minder heeft."
      Ik concludeer hier uit dat Vettel eigenaar is van Ferrari, dat hij Rossberg tegen een jeugdloon aanneemt voor 2021 en dat hij zichzelf ontslaat zodat hij flink kan bezuinigen op de begroting van Ferrari. En dat allemaal om van 2021 een groter rampjaar te maken dan 2014 zodat er nooit meer over 2014 wordt gesproken.

      Dit bedoel je toch?

      • + 0
      • 23 nov 2019 - 09:50
  • Ik zit niet zo in de geschiedenis van Ferrari.
    Hoe vaak is het gebeurd dat een contract niet volledig werd uitgediend bij Ferrari?
    Prost was de laatste?

    Best mogelijk dat Ferrari volgend jaar een andere line-up heeft.
    -Italiaanse pers laat geen spaan heel van Ferrari op dit moment
    -Binotto komt onder druk te staan
    -#vettelout
    -nog meer?

    • + 0
    • 22 nov 2019 - 11:11
    • Joeppp

      Posts: 2.616

      Ik kan mij vergissen maar volgens mij moest Michael Schumacher ook weg bij Ferrari als coureur.

      • + 1
      • 22 nov 2019 - 11:23
    • Aiii

      Posts: 644

      Je vergist je. Het was Massa die weg moest. Schumi is toen met pensioen gegaan uit een soort van medelijden voor de gast, zeggen ze. Dat klinkt niet echt als Schumi, dus het zal lang niet de enige reden geweest zijn. Maar als Schumi niet met pensioen was gegaan, had Massa het veld geruimd voor Kimi, niet Schumacher.

      • + 1
      • 22 nov 2019 - 11:26
    • Raikonnen.

      • + 2
      • 22 nov 2019 - 11:28
    • @Aii,
      Schumacher is niet vrijwillig vertrokken, Di Montezemolo heeft toen de machtstrijd van Schumi en Todt gewonnen.
      Heb het hele verhaal nog ergens staan, kan wel even kijken of ik het kan vinden.

      • + 3
      • 22 nov 2019 - 11:30
    • Schumacher verklaarde achteraf zelf dat zn lichaam rust nodig had en dat t fysiek te zware wissel trok en dat ie bijna niet thuis was en dat ie alles gewonnen had wat er te winnen viel en de keuze om men pensioen te gaan geheel de keuze van Schumacher zelf was .

      Een 7 voudig wereldkampioen stamp je niet zomaar buiten , zoals Monza zegt
      De laatste die wegmoest was idd Kimi

      • + 1
      • 22 nov 2019 - 11:32
    • Joeppp

      Posts: 2.616

      Stukje copy paste van internet waarvan ik niet weet of het waar is: Wat ik in ieder geval je nu al kan meegeven: het was niet zo vrijwillig als dat in het begin werd aangenomen. Tuurlijk, Schumacher was de meest succesvolle coureur van dat moment en had inmiddels de leeftijd dat je aan een afscheid zou kunnen denken. Maar naast het sportieve vlak is de Formule 1 ook gekend om zijn politieke spelletjes. En het is dan ook die politiek die een (voorlopig) einde maakte aan F1-carriere van Schumacher.

      Met vijf recente wereldkampioenschappen op zak, gewonnen met een coureur die inmiddels halverwege de dertig was, is het niet meer dan logisch dat Ferrari aan het nadenken was over de opvolging van Michael Schumacher. Geen gemakkelijke taak, want het zijn grote schoenen om te vullen. In de periode dat dit speelde (zo rond 2004-2005) waren het Kimi Raikonnen en Fernando Alonso die de meeste aanspraak maakten. De Fin was op jonge leeftijd als groot talent de Formule 1 ingekomen en was inmiddels bij (toenmalig topteam) McLaren sterk groeiende in aanzien en resultaten. Ook de Spanjaard Alonso wist samen met Renault zich steeds nadrukkelijker te melden aan de voorkant van de grid.

      Je moet weten dat de successen van Schumacher en Ferrari het resultaat waren van een heel team aan mensen, die een heel sterke organisatie wisten neer te zetten. Namen als Ross Brawn, Jean Todt en Rory Byrne waren op technisch en organisatorisch vlak heel belangrijk voor de opmars van Ferrari sinds dat Schumacher in 1996 de overstap maakte vanaf Benneton. Het was Ferrari-baas Luca Di Montezemolo die al deze mensen aannam, in een poging het verliesmakende Ferrari er terug financieel en sportief bovenop te helpen.

      Het gevoel in de paddock heerste dat Alonso de beste kansen had om door Ferrari aangetrokken te worden. Hier is Jean Todt echter persoonlijk voor gaan liggen. In de periode dat Alonso een reizende ster was bij de F3000 probeerde Jean Todt Alonso een voorcontract te laten tekenen bij Ferrari. Er was een mondeling akkoord maar het was uiteindelijk Flavio Briatore die een handtekening van Alonso op een contract wist te krijgen. Dit zorgde voor kwaad bloed bij de Fransman Todt, die dat halverwege de jaren 2000 nog niet vergeten was.

      Jean Todt wilde eigenlijk door met Schumacher, waar hij al jarenlang goed mee samenwerkte en inmiddels een hechte vriendschap mee had ontwikkeld. Het was echter diezelfde hechte band waar Montezemolo moeite mee had. De Italiaan was bang dat de mensen rond Schumacher teveel macht hadden binnen Ferrari. Montezemolo wilde dus dat Schumacher vervangen zou worden. Nu dat Alonso uit beeld was bleef daar de andere meest logische optie over: Kimi Raikonnen.

      Toenmalig McLaren-teambaas Ron Dennis wilde Raikonnen een contract voor het leven laten tekenen, maar de Fin weigerde dit pertinent. Ron Dennis en Kimi Raikonnen konden niet met elkaar door één deur en daarom zag Kimi het niet zitten om een dergelijk contract te tekenen. Dit feit kwam ook tot Luca Di Montezemolo, die zijn kans schoon zag om de concurrentie voor te zijn. Vrij brutaal (en zonder veel overleg met de dagelijkse leiding van het Ferrari F1 team) tekende hij Kimi Raikonnen in de zomer van 2005. Voor Raikonnen dé manier om weg te kunnen bij McLaren (en dus vooral Ron Dennis) en voor Di Montezemolo een sterke opvolger voor Schumacher.

      Ferrari had in die tijd al een aantal coureurs aan zich gebonden waarin ze een toekomstig kampioen zagen. De Braziliaan Felipe Massa was er daar één van en werd op aanraden van Ferrari bij Sauber getekend zodat deze ervaring kon opdoen in de Formule 1. Al reeds in 2003 had Massa een langdurig contract met Ferrari getekend, zodat ook hij een racezitje bij de Italiaanse renstal zou krijgen.

      Toen Schumacher dit kwam te weten waren de opties vrij beperkt en hield hij uiteindelijk de eer aan zichzelf. De Duitser zou bij Ferrari betrokken blijven als adviseur en als assistent van Jean Todt gaan werken. Maar in de praktijk is dat nooit tot wasdom gekomen. Schumacher was geen coureur meer en moest aan dit idee gaan wennen. Hiermee kwam er een einde aan één van de meest succesvolle samenwerkingen die de Formule 1 gezien had.

      Later heeft Luca Di Montezemolo wel verklaard dat hij spijt had van zijn acties. Toen Massa in 2009 zwaar crashte en tijdelijk vervangen moest worden, is de Ferrari-baas samen met teambaas Domenicali naar Schumacher gegaan om hem persoonlijk te vragen terug te komen. Voorbereidingen hiervoor werden getroffen, maar door een eerder motorongeluk was Michael Schumacher langdurig geblesseerd aan zijn nek en werd hij uiteindelijk niet fit genoeg bevonden voor een terugkeer.

      • + 7
      • 22 nov 2019 - 11:41
    • @Maximumoverdrive,
      Daar kun jij je nog lelijk in vergissen.
      Dat was een machtsspel tussen Di Montezemolo, Schumacher, Todt, Raikonnens manager Robertson, Ron Dennis en Valentino Rossi.
      Ik heb er een hele lap tekst over, ik zal hem even opzoeken en kijk maar Wat je er van vindt.
      Ik was toen op Monza in 2006 er hing een spanning om te snijden bij Ferrari.
      Toenmalig perschef Luca Colajanni heeft inderhaast een A 4 tje opgesteld waarin Schumi's pensioen werd aangekondigd, iedereen was totaal in shock.
      Daar was niets vrijwilligs aan.

      • + 2
      • 22 nov 2019 - 13:02
    • Avondvullend programma, maar wel interessant ;)


      Michael Schumacher - The strange story of his retirement

      Contributed by Business F1
      4/5/07

      The dramatic circumstances of the Italian Grand Prix and Michael Schumacher?s retirement will live on for a long time. After his rival was sidelined by a bizarre stewards? decision, Schumacher won the race and then announced his retirement. But it was an amazing few hours, worthy of a scripted piece of drama. BusinessF1 retraced the moves that led to that startling finish.

      By Tom Rubython On Sunday 10th September 2006 at 3:25pm, precisely the same time as Michael Schumacher passed the checkered flag to win the Italian Grand Prix, the staff of Ferrari?s press supremo, Luca Colajanni, started handing an A4 sheet of paper to journalists outside the team?s motorhome. It was a one-page press release announcing the retirement of the most successful racing driver in history, a driver at the top of his game challenging for the world championship. Colajanni had been given precise orders by Ferrari chairman Luca di Montezemolo about just what he had to do and when he had to do it.

      It was strange timing, as Schumacher was about to make the announcement himself in the winner?s press conference after the podium ceremony. Normally press releases are handed out after an announcement has been made, or during it ? but rarely before. It takes away the point. As so it turned out when half an hour later Schumacher found himself announcing what everybody already knew.

      The Ferrari team?s haste to announce its driver?s retirement was indeed bizarre. Colajanni had wanted to pre-empt the driver?s own announcement as if to make sure there was no turning back.

      Montezemolo had exercised a strong presence in the Ferrari garage at Monza Park all weekend. On qualifying day he hovered around the Ferrari motorhome waving away journalists? enquiries about what was going on. On race-day he had arrived with John Elkann, the most senior member of the Agnelli family working at Fiat, and Sergio Marchionne, the chief executive of Fiat. He also had Piero Ferrari in his party. One observer was mystified at the presence of all these big guns and said: ?It was as though Luca wanted reinforcements.? But reinforcements for what? It was soon to become clear. Although everything looked normal in the Ferrari garage and motorhome, underneath the surface a civil war was concluding, in Montezemolo?s favour. It had run all summer, but was finally coming to an end. All that Montezemolo now required was for Jean Todt, the team principal, and Michael Schumacher, the number one driver, to run up the white flag.

      In truth no one knew what was about to happen. Schumacher didn?t want to retire, at least not that day. And he thought he still retained enough power to get his way. But Montezemolo had long before given him a deadline of Monza and told him (expressly against Jean Todt?s wishes) that it was either driving alongside Kimi Räikkönen in 2007 ? or retirement.

      In a previous age no one had dared tell Michael Schumacher what to do. He had been king of Formula One for 12 years and for half of them was easily the sport?s most powerful man, eclipsing even Bernie Ecclestone.

      Montezemolo hated this situation and had also come to resent Jean Todt?s role in the Michael Schumacher show. He took the Enzo Ferrari view that drivers were employees who performed at the behest of their employers. Todt on the other hand took a collegiate view; the top people at the team, including Schumacher, were his close friends and far from being his employees.

      But there is no doubt that this combination of opposing management styles got the job done. And for that reason each had tolerated the other.

      Only once before in the 11 seasons that Schumacher had been a Ferrari driver, in 1999, had Montezemolo insisted on getting his way.

      Officially, of course, none of the above occurred. The official line was that Schumacher had simply decided to retire many months before and that Ferrari had signed Räikkönen to take his place, end of story. In fact, Todt suggested anyone who thought any different was ?stupid?.

      Everyone, then, is stupid.

      There was clearly tension between Todt and Montezemolo that weekend in Monza. On Friday and Saturday, there had been an uneasy peace as both men went about their business. Then, on race-day, with less than 15 minutes to the start, Montezemolo broke away from Ferrari on the grid and went up to Räikkönen?s car. He leaned over the cockpit and gave a thumbs-up sign, as if indicating that all was going to plan. It was a strange action to pursue with his team?s close competitor at Ferrari?s home race.

      After Schumacher?s race victory, Montezemolo was delirious with joy and, flanked by Elkann and Marchionne, in the full glare of television, he embraced Jean Todt and kissed him. But as Montezemolo kissed him Italian style and threw his arms around his shoulders, Todt quickly turned away. It resembled the scene in ?The Godfather Part III? when Michael Corleone embraces his brother Fredo whilst whispering his death sentence.

      Then it was Michael Schumacher?s turn. After being pecked by Montezemolo, he too resisted his boss?s celebratory embraces and looked blankly over his shoulder. For Montezemolo, as he embraced the two men he knew the press release signalling his victory was being handed out to journalists.

      It was now clear to insiders that Montezemolo had won his internal battle with Todt to turn Räikkönen?s option into a firm contract drive for Ferrari in 2007. And it was clear that Schumacher?s ultimatum of ?Räikkönen?s or me? had been ignored.

      It was a battle Montezemolo had been determined to win. Six years earlier, to give the team the very best chance of winning, he had wanted to hire Mika Häkkinen as team-mate to Schumacher. But he had been blocked by the twin powers of Schumacher and Todt. This time he was determined to prevail. He wanted Räikkönen, and if that meant Schumacher?s departure, then so be it. And he also made it clear he was not prepared to carry on paying Schumacher his US$45 million a year in his twilight years. In any case that money was no longer available, it had been allocated to Räikkönen in a deal skilfully negotiated by the driver?s manager David Robertson.

      In truth Schumacher was not simply being pushed out of Ferrari, he was not prepared to carry on under the terms that were being offered. So he reluctantly decided to retire. And in any event it was good timing ? he was going out at the peak of his powers.

      Naturally, in the circumstances, the two press conferences, first for TV and then for the press were sad affairs. Schumacher was very morose. He clearly saw no happiness in retirement. But he played the company line and did not vent any feelings of being pushed out. That was not Schumacher?s way. And the timing of the press release before his own announcement had given him no room for manoeuvre. It was done on the express orders of Montezemolo to ensure that he, and not Schumacher, was setting the agenda.

      The sense of despair from Schumacher was obvious. He is the one driver on the grid who genuinely loves Formula One. He lives and breathes it. Whilst some other multiple world champions have rushed into retirement, he seemed set to drive on into his 40s. He was clearly not ready to retire after 16 seasons of racing, nearly double the average career span and equalling the career of Ricardo Patrese.

      But at the age of 37, he found, like many others, that as far as Montezemolo was concerned he was past his sell-by date. As Schumacher?s long-time manager, Willi Weber, woefully observed in a passing comment to a journalist at Monza: ?Michael found he no longer has the power he thought at Ferrari.? So Schumacher?s retirement was just as controversial as his entry into the sport at the Belgian Grand Prix in first practice on Friday 23rd August 1991.

      The countdown for Schumacher?s demise had begun on 25th August 2005 when Räikkönen signed a one-year option which gave Ferrari the right, within a certain time period, to employ him, at a salary of around US$45 million, for three years from 2007 to 2009 with options to renew beyond that. The option price had never been confirmed but was rumoured around the paddock to be US$5 million.

      Everybody knew that the drivers? market was headed for a shake-up in 2007. It became clear that the contracts of the three best drivers in the world, Schumacher, Räikkönen and Fernando Alonso were all expiring at the same time ? at end of 2006. It was a unique event in Formula One history and meant that all three could be driving at different teams in 2007. In normal circumstances one or two of the top drivers might be out of contract at the same time, but never three. However, in truth nobody expected any of the three to move from their incumbent teams. Schumacher was an absolute fixture at Ferrari and showing no sign of retiring. Alonso was winning everything at Renault so why would he move, especially as Flavio Briatore, the Renault team principal, was his manager? And Räikkönen, despite coming to the end of his contract, had options for the future and really nowhere else to go.

      And that was how it looked in the summer of 2005 as Räikkönen?s manager, David Robertson, and McLaren Mercedes team principal, Ron Dennis, sat down to discuss the Finnish driver?s future. It was to be the first of the big driver negotiations for 2007.

      As far as Robertson was concerned, it was all going to be pretty straightforward. He couldn?t comprehend Räikkönen leaving. The contract was up but Dennis had options to renew it well into the future. These options all stemmed from the original contract Räikkönen had signed in September 2001. Dennis had paid a small fortune to secure Räikkönen?s services including a rumoured US$14 million to compensate Peter Sauber. It was a complex contract ? two years (2002 and 2003) at a modest salary and then three years (2004-2006) for a much larger retainer culminating in the near US$45 million he was being paid in 2006. But Räikkönen was far from a free agent at the end of his McLaren contract. By all accounts it was at Dennis?s option to take up another three years if he was willing to pay an escalating salary.

      Dennis had security, but at a price. There is no way of telling what that price was but it was likely to mean Räikkönen receiving at least US$60-US$70 million a year by 2009. But Dennis, who had been bamboozled into agreeing the high price four years before in 2001, just before the 9/11 terrorist attacks when economic conditions had been very different, did not want to pay, although he still wanted Räikkönen to drive for him.

      By all accounts Robertson was somewhat surprised, even if he didn?t show it, when Dennis said he wasn?t taking up the option. Although there is no independent confirmation of this it appears that Dennis believed he could cancel the option, and thereby his commitment, and open negotiations with Robertson at a more sensible retainer. After all Dennis believed, and it certainly looked the case, that Räikkönen had nowhere else to go.

      It appears Dennis genuinely believed Robertson would simply agree a lower retainer, probably something nearer US$35 million. But it proved Dennis did not know the man at all. Robertson is an extremely shrewd individual. Even his critics say he can read the minds of team principals. He is believed to study their psyche in his spare time so that he can deal with them more effectively. In his short career in the paddock he has already negotiated with Frank Williams, Flavio Briatore, Ron Dennis and Jean Todt, and bested all of them.

      Anyone who has had negotiations with him of any kind is aware of his skills. As one associate says: ?He is the sort of man, and this is not said impolitely, with whom one counts ones fingers after shaking his hand. He probably secretly relishes that reputation.?

      It is important to emphasise that at that stage of the 2005 season, in spite of Robertson?s reputation, Dennis thought he held all the cards. Räikkönen was dominating the latter half of the 2005 season and McLaren was the top team. Conversely Ferrari was in the doldrums ? why would Räikkönen want to go there even if he could?

      And Renault was out of the equation. Everyone thought Alonso was a fixture at Renault. When Dennis let Räikkönen?s option lapse he knew, or at least thought he knew, that he could simply wait for Robertson to accept his offer.

      But Robertson sensed something different. He sensed discontent in the McLaren organisation, a sense of drift. He had picked up that Adrian Newey was leaving and that Nick Tombazis might do the same. He also thought most of Ferrari?s problems were tyre related and solvable; he knew that Ross Brawn and Rory Byrne had not suddenly become bad engineers.
      But Robertson kept his counsel with Dennis and said he would get back to him.

      Robertson considered his options and marched over to the Ferrari motorhome to get the lie of the land. He imagined negotiations with Todt alone would be a waste of time. So he sought to engage Montezemolo and Todt together. Again the wily operator had picked up their differences on his radar and thought he might be able to divide and conquer. He was absolutely correct. Whilst Todt was cool to the idea of hiring Räikkönen, Montezemolo was more than keen. But there were complications. Ferrari already had an option with Valentino Rossi and Todt doubted openly that Schumacher would want Räikkönen alongside him. But Robertson spoke privately to Montezemolo. Soon the two men agreed to sign Räikkönen to an option in Ferrari?s favour for a year, and to pay for the privilege.

      But Robertson was not out of the woods. At that point he did not think Ferrari would actually sign Räikkönen. But it was his leverage on Ron Dennis. Robertson made sure by judicious leaks to journalist friends that it got around the paddock about Ferrari?s option. Dennis?s bluff had been publicly called.

      And so matters rested, until the end of the season when Dennis heard on the grapevine that Räikkönen had signed for Ferrari. Although it was only an option he guessed immediately what was going on and decided he was not about to be kept on a string for a year whilst Ferrari decided his future.

      By then the situation with the third driver in the loop, Fernando Alonso, was becoming clouded as rumours spread that Renault would withdraw from Formula One at the end of 2006. One very highly placed pundit whispered in Dennis?s ear that he had heard this would definitely happen. As sad as that might be for Formula One, Dennis realised it was very good news for him. As the rumour gained currency, whatever its truth, it effectively put Alonso into play.

      Dennis made an approach for Alonso. He understood, as did everyone else in the paddock, that at around US$6 million a year, Alonso was underpaid. Dennis offered Alonso US$16 million a year. The timing of the move was perfect.

      At that point Renault?s prospects for 2007 were at their lowest and McLaren?s, after its storming season, at their highest. McLaren had also just announced it had signed Vodafone as title sponsor for 2007; it had more cash than ever. With all things considered Alonso?s manager Flavio Briatore had no choice but to advise his driver to accept Dennis?s offer. He knew Renault at that moment in time would not match it (although later the situation was to change).

      Dennis attached one condition to his offer ? he wanted to announce it immediately despite the disruption it would cause to his existing drivers. Close friends say he was driven by a desire to get back at David Robertson and tell the Formula One world how clever he was.

      Alonso?s signing was announced to an unsuspecting world just before Christmas 2005. It caused a sensation, mainly revolving around Briatore?s position and the obvious conflict of interest. Briatore took it all in his stride. Interestingly he and Dennis came up with entirely different stories of how Alonso was signed. But by then it didn?t matter. After the ravages inflicted on his bank account by David Robertson, Dennis considered it a good day?s work to get Alonso for just US$16 million.

      But Dennis had seriously piqued his existing drivers and when they heard the news both vowed to leave the team at the end of 2006. They felt they had been double-crossed. Räikkönen?s position for 2007 suddenly looked precarious.

      Over at Ferrari, Michael Schumacher was as entrenched as ever and the Italian team had signed an option with Valentino Rossi for 2007, this one at the driver?s behest. If Rossi decided to take up his option there would be no room for Räikkönen. The situation was slightly complicated when Rubens Barrichello read the tea leaves and saw that he also would be out at the end of 2006. Honda was desperate to sign him and he negotiated a release from his contract to take a big money, three-year deal. To replace him the team signed Felipe Massa on a one-year contract as a stop-gap. Schumacher expected that it would be him and Rossi in the cockpit for 2007.

      But as 2006 began, Montezemolo realised he didn?t want that. Signing Rossi was Todt and Schumacher?s plan. He wanted Räikkönen, his man, in the car for 2007, and started scheming to get his way.

      It may seem ridiculous that Montezemolo had effectively to politic within his own company, but that is the way it was. Todt had made Ferrari his own fiefdom, much to the annoyance of Montezemolo. The two had already clashed earlier this year when Montezemolo wanted to take Marlboro off the car for 2007 and find a non-tobacco sponsor. Todt wanted to stay with an eager Marlboro. Montezemolo tried everything he could to find an alternative and even invited Sir Martin Sorrell, chief executive of WPP Group, the world?s biggest advertising agency group, to visit him in Maranello. Ostensibly he wanted to discuss whether WPP and its network of sponsorship agencies could help with finding a new title sponsor for 2007.

      But Todt found out about Sorrell?s visit. And when Sorrell arrived at Maranello, he did not meet with Montezemolo but with the Frenchman. Predictably the discussions went nowhere. Todt told Sorrell he already had a title sponsor for 2007 and asked him why he was there. Sorrell wondered that himself and the visit had effectively been a waste of his time. But as Sorrell was leaving, walking down the corridor on his way to Ferrari?s reception, Montezemolo jumped out of a door in front of him and ushered him into a small adjacent conference room. He asked him what had been discussed with Todt and when Sorrell told him, begged him to find an alternative to Marlboro. It was all over in 10 minutes and Sorrell left Maranello shaking his head at the shenanigans he had witnessed between the two men. Sorrell had no intention of wasting his time trying to find a title sponsor for a team that already had one. Todt had already told Sorrell he had done a deal with his friend Louis Camilleri, the chairman of Altria, the Marlboro parent company. Camilleri had agreed a five-year deal from 2007 to pay US$200 million a year. It was the biggest sponsorship deal ever in Formula One and an offer the team could not turn down.

      Montezemolo was in despair after the Marlboro deal was signed. It made Todt, now seen as a top rainmaker, even more powerful inside the team. In fact Montezemolo had begun to feel like a stranger in his own factory. Continually away on Fiat and Italian business, Montezemolo realised he had made a mistake when he had promoted Todt the year before to head the whole Ferrari car factory. He had expected him to fall flat on his face but instead he rose to the task and Ferrari, which had been in the financial doldrums, began a remarkable recovery under Todt?s stewardship.

      Montezemolo felt he had created a monster in Todt that he could no longer control. Although the two men had worked together for more than a decade, they were like chalk and cheese. Behind the rough exterior, Todt is a self-made, cultured man, an art lover with impeccable taste. In 2005 he had teamed up with Hollywood actress, Michelle Yeoh, got engaged to her and was in many ways beginning to outshine Montezemolo himself.

      By contrast Montezemolo is a proud aristocrat. A member of the Agnelli family by any other name, he is regarded within the Fiat empire as a marketing wunderkind.

      No one in Maranello can understand why the Todt-Montezemolo alliance has lasted so long. One observer said: ?It is a mystery, Todt?s not Luca?s sort of person and vice versa.?

      It was never part of Montezemolo?s plan to get rid of Todt, he simply wanted to break up the Todt-Brawn-Schumacher alliance that so effectively controlled the team. And it appears that the battleground was drawn over Michael Schumacher, with both men determined to get their way.

      But Montezemolo was more determined.

      Montezemolo was not overawed by Michael Schumacher as so clearly was Jean Todt. That was shown in 1999 when the two men faced up to each other after Schumacher broke his leg at the British Grand Prix. Even after he had recovered enough to go testing Schumacher announced on Sunday 3rd October that he would not be fit enough to take part in the remaining two races of the year in Malaysia and Japan.

      After the accident Eddie Irvine had taken up the running for the world championship title and badly needed the help of a strong team-mate. But the last thing Schumacher appeared to want was his team-mate to win the world championship and he had clearly decided, with Todt?s collaboration, to see the last two races out. Irvine pleaded with Montezemolo to intervene.

      What happened next was instructive in the differing relationships Schumacher enjoyed with Todt and Montezemolo. On the afternoon of Tuesday 5th October 1999, Montezemolo rang Schumacher at his home in Switzerland to ask if he would change his mind and drive. But Schumacher?s young daughter Gina-Maria answered the phone and told Montezemolo that her Daddy was ?getting out of his football boots?. Montezemolo questioned the little girl more closely and ascertained that she and her brother had been enjoying a rough game of football in the garden with their father. When Schumacher finally came to the phone, Montezemolo asked him if indeed he had been playing football. The German had no choice but to be truthful. Once Montezemolo heard that, he said to him that if he was fit enough to play football he was fit enough to drive in Malaysia and Japan. When Schumacher resisted, Montezemolo reminded him that he was being paid US$2 million a race and would do as he was told. Schumacher had no choice but to comply and on Friday 8th October the team announced he would indeed be returning for the last two races.

      The incident had been a lesson for Montezemolo, who realised that a secret conspiracy existed between Todt and Schumacher.

      He had run up against it before when he had wanted to hire Mika Häkkinen to partner Schumacher. Then Todt had told Montezemolo that Schumacher would not have it and would leave. In effect Schumacher was so powerful he could dictate terms and Montezemolo could not risk calling his bluff. But Montezemolo believed Schumacher would have stayed and was left smarting by his rebuttal at the hands of the two men.

      So when the chance came to sign Kimi Räïkkönen in the summer of 2005, Montezemolo was determined to grab it. After a poor season when the team had won nothing bar the controversial United States Grand Prix, Montezemolo sensed that Schumacher?s reign was coming to an end. He would be nearly 38 when his last contract ended in 2006.

      So when David Robertson came calling, Montezemolo was all ears. Robertson brilliantly played off Montezemolo and Todt against each other. According to sources at Ferrari, Montezemolo didn?t want to get into a situation next year where he was looking for a top-line driver and everyone was signed up. Montezemolo is in instinctive man and, as one person close to Ferrari observes: ?He decided to put the bunsen-burner under the situation.?

      That person confirms that Montezemolo had been bitterly disappointed when he couldn?t sign Häkkinen and it had always rankled: ?The aggravation with Todt has been there the whole time but came to a head at Monza. Luca had wanted to see Häkkinen in the other car. He believes it is 200 per cent about the drivers.?

      During the 2005 season Montezemolo decided he didn?t want Valentino Rossi even though he had a firm option to join the team. He persuaded Rossi not to take it up and stay in MotoGP. This decision upset Schumacher who could see what it meant. Rossi had had a programme mapped out to familiarise himself with the car prior to a 2007 debut.

      Schumacher said at the time: ?We are sad not to see him here. I think he has a very high talent and could have done it in terms of driving.? Ross Brawn, the Ferrari technical director and a strong Todt-Schumacher ally was also upset and said: ?We were very impressed with what he was able to do. It would have been very exciting. He was very impressive in all the running we did, otherwise we wouldn?t have taken him so seriously. It would have been a nice challenge to have. It?s a shame.?

      Rossi?s announcement fuelled speculation that Ferrari had already decided upon its 2007 driver line-up and that Kimi Räikkönen would be named as Michael Schumacher?s team-mate for next season. But by midsummer it was far from decided and a full-scale battle was going on inside Ferrari. There was a stand-off, which would continue until the deadline to take up Räikkönen?s option.

      Meanwhile, David Robertson was sensing that Ferrari might not take up Räikkönen?s option and that Schumacher would not drive alongside him. That prompted him to renew relations with Ron Dennis and make sure his options were still open there. But with McLaren?s 2006 car having flopped and the three top technical men, led by Adrian Newey, having left the team, conditions were totally different. So in May, Robertson started serious negotiations with Flavio Briatore to take Räikkönen to Renault. Robertson found a team principal who very badly wanted to do a deal. The downside was that the retainer was half what he had been getting at McLaren and half of what he had been offered at Ferrari. But against that was a very competitive car; in May it was the most competitive car.

      The negotiations were a surprise as Briatore had clashed with Robertson in 2001 and openly criticised him and his methods. But now the Italian turned on the charm offensive and entertained Robertson, and his son Steve, on his boat in Monte Carlo. He also introduced them to his ravishing new girlfriend, Elisabetta Gregoracci, and she worked her own charms on the two men as they toured the Renault team principal?s new yacht in Monaco harbour.

      Briatore was ready to forget the past if there was a deal to be done. And he badly needed the deal. By this time his position was very different to how it had been in December 2005. Now the future was clear and Carlos Ghosn, the Renault chairman, had made a long-term commitment to the team and even turned on the cash spigot. Briatore was able to offer Räikkönen a decent retainer, said to be US$21 million but with the added opportunity to accept outside endorsements, which could have been worth another US$10 million.

      The two men held detailed negotiations and Briatore personally spent a lot of time wooing Robertson. Later Briatore would angrily tell friends that he felt Robertson had been wasting his time and had been committed to Ferrari at the same time as he was offering Räikkönen to Renault. However, this was not the case. Robertson had been negotiating in the genuine belief that Ferrari would not take up its option because of Schumacher.

      All through the early summer, civil war raged behind the scenes at Maranello. But Schumacher found his power to get his way had gone. Montezemolo appeared not to care whether he stayed or went. At the German Grand Prix, which Schumacher won with Massa second and Räikkönen third, the Ferrari number one driver put on a very public show of affection for his team-mate and totally ignored Räikkönen. It was a classic Schumacher display: he was demonstrating publicly to Montezemolo how he wanted it to be and how good it could be. But Montezemolo was totally unmoved. In fact insiders say it hardened his resolve to dislodge the superstar. And in August, Robertson was proved wrong when Montezemolo signed the contract with him. No one close to Ferrari was surprised, as one insider says: ?Luca, being the politician that he is, closed off every rat hole.?

      When Schumacher learned the news, he told Montezemolo he wanted until the end of the season to make up his mind about whether he would stay and partner Räikkönen. In the meantime, he didn?t want any announcement made about Räikkönen. But Montezemolo was not having any of that. He wanted the situation resolved and told Schumacher he wanted his decision by Monza, when he would announce Räikkönen. By then it appears Ross Brawn had also decided he would leave if Schumacher did. That news was leaked to journalists to pile pressure on Montezemolo.

      The writing was on the wall. Montezemolo had come this far and was not about to turn back.

      Montezemolo won the battle: Schumacher would not drive with Räikkönen and would instead announce his retirement. But the decision was very much against his will.

      He would have rather carried on with Felipe Massa as his team-mate. Now the seven times world champion, still only 37, has to decide what to do next and where life will take him.

      Meanwhile, none of the pronouncements so far can be taken for granted. Despite the 17 years since Enzo Ferrari?s death, Ferrari is still a very Machiavellian organisation and Jean Todt, predictably, is seething about losing this public battle with Montezemolo. He knows he will never have the same type of relationship with Räikkönen that he has had with Schumacher. Insiders, however, insist that Todt?s job is safe and that he has too many friends inside Fiat for Montezemolo to contemplate sacking him. And they add that Montezemolo, who is not regarded as malicious, genuinely doesn?t want that and knows Todt is the best man to run Ferrari. One says: ?Whatever Luca is, he isn?t stupid.?

      But another outside observer says that Todt has been wounded by what has transpired and doesn?t believe the story is concluded, as he says: ?Todt is the most malicious person on two legs and he will hold that against Luca.?

      • + 7
      • 22 nov 2019 - 13:07
    • Trulla

      Posts: 1.355

      2e keer: Ik heb die lap tekst niet gelezen, maar als Schumacher zo onvrijwillig weg moest bij Ferrari, waarom stond Michael dan zo vaak aan de Ferrari pitmuur in 2007? Ik kan me niet voorstellen dat Michael dan nog zich laat gebruiken voor het 2007 seizoen.

      Extra tekst om ‘Dit bericht heb je recent al geplaatst’ te omzeilen.

      • + 1
      • 22 nov 2019 - 13:17
    • @Monza Doe effe normaal zeg met die enorme lappen tekst. Ben je niet goed wijs ofzo?
      Bovendien dacht ik dat de regel op dit forum was dat je (het grootste deel van de tekst) in de Nederlands taal moet posten..

      • + 0
      • 22 nov 2019 - 13:30
    • Wat is je probleem @RJHvandaag.
      We worden getrakteerd op mooie inside-info.
      Ik ga het lekker lezen op de bank vanavond.
      Bedankt @Monza

      • + 3
      • 22 nov 2019 - 13:37
    • @Bill koop het boek, zou ik zeggen. Beter dan dit knip- en plakwerk.

      • + 0
      • 22 nov 2019 - 13:40
    • @Rjh,
      Is het weer die tijd van de maand?

      • + 9
      • 22 nov 2019 - 13:44
    • @Monza Jij neemt vast net zoveel ruimte in de bus in als hier op dit forum.
      Ik krijg iig geen harde van je postje. Neem de volgende keer tenminste de moeite om de boel te vertalen, als je daartoe bij machte bent.

      • + 0
      • 22 nov 2019 - 13:50
    • @rjh,
      Waar jij wel of niet een harde van krijgt lijkt me jou probleem.
      Vertalen? Jij bent degene die mekkert dat het niet in het Nederlands is pipo.
      Engels is geen swahili, probeer het maar gewoon of heb je je lagere school niet afgemaakt?

      • + 9
      • 22 nov 2019 - 13:54
    • Joeppp

      Posts: 2.616

      "Doe effe normaal"....effe is ook geen Nederlands. Ik vind die lappen tekst juist wel leuk. Iemand stelde een vraag en dan is het leuk dat er een discussie op gang komt met achtergrond informatie.

      • + 4
      • 22 nov 2019 - 13:55
    • "@Bill koop het boek, zou ik zeggen"
      Waarom? Ik kan het nu hier lezen.
      Daarnaast is de kast al vol met kookboeken en porno.

      • + 3
      • 22 nov 2019 - 14:39
    • Rustaaaaagh. Ik ga het ook niet lezen hoor. Maar ik begrijp best wel waarom mensen dit wel lezen. Als je je er aan stoort is het maar 3 seconden scrollen en je merkt er niks van.

      • + 3
      • 22 nov 2019 - 14:40
    • Snork

      Posts: 7.001

      RJH, ik snap geen snars van jouw reactie op Mr. Monza. Ik vind het juist mooi dat forumleden informatie delen over de F1. Vind je het niet ok, scroll dan even door.
      En of het nou Nederlands of Engels is, who cares (is ook engels...). Iedereen beheerst de Engelse taal toch voldoende om er vlot doorheen te lezen?
      Niet zo zuur reageren dus.

      @Mr. Monza: mille grazie, leuk stukje achtergrondinformatie.

      • + 5
      • 22 nov 2019 - 15:08
    • @RJHvandaag is gewoon wat geïrriteerd dat Max verstappen niet in het verhaal voorkomt

      @Bill, dat is toevallig, ik heb thuis precies zo'n zelfde boekenkast en inhoud, exclusief de kookboeken dan

      • + 4
      • 22 nov 2019 - 15:11
    • Buurman

      Posts: 965

      Dank voor het plaatsen mr.Monza!
      Ik vind het geweldig om te lezen. Dit voegt daadwerkelijk wat interessants toe.

      • + 3
      • 22 nov 2019 - 15:13
    • @MrMonza: blijf vooral zo'n post posten. Als het interessant is lees ik het maar al te graag.

      Diegenen die het te lang vinden:
      - lees het dan niet
      - ga maar verder op titels zonder de content te checken...

      • + 4
      • 22 nov 2019 - 15:18
    • flyineddy

      Posts: 162

      @mr.Monza en Joeppp, erg bedankt voor deze teksten.
      De periode van voor 2016 volgde ik de F1 nog niet echt (ik weet het, Max... Al speelt leeftijd ook een belangrijke rol) en dus weet ik daar nog niet zoveel van. Ik vind dit soort teksten dan ook bijzonder interessant om te lezen, zelfs als het voornamelijk over speculaties gaat. Dit mag van mij dan ook wel vaker als artikel hier op de site geplaatst worden (misschien een idee voor een YourVoice?).

      Eddy.

      • + 4
      • 22 nov 2019 - 15:51
    • Inderdaad, het was Di Montezemolo die een machtstrijd won. Wat moet die zich stom gevoeld hebben als ie enkele maanden later moest toezien dat Raikkonen geen klap sneller was dan Massa. Met Schumacher hadden ze 2007 en 2008 gewonnen, zonder twijfel.

      • + 0
      • 22 nov 2019 - 19:55
    • Zeer interessant stuk Monza, bedankt hiervoor.

      • + 0
      • 22 nov 2019 - 20:07
    • Sun-Tzu

      Posts: 2.321

      @Monza, hands down de meest interessante post van het jaar! Top en ik krijg direct weer zin om het seizoen 2006 terug te kijken, zeker met deze inside info erbij. Lang niet al deze details waren mij bekend.

      @RJHVandaag, wat een contrast met de inhoud van Monza met de reeks puberale reacties. Alsof we op een hersenloos (voetbal)forum zitten waar iedere puber zeurt over een lange tekst wanneer een stukje langer is dan de letters van het alfabet bij elkaar. Jammer...

      • + 2
      • 22 nov 2019 - 22:21
    • @Mr Monza

      Thanks voor de uitgebreide info
      Ik heb in 2001 nog in spa voor schumi staan juichen , en deze info is me eigenlijk totaal ontgaan , nergens heb ik t ook ergens teruggelezen en ook niet het besef gehad dat dit een pakweg jaar of 5 jaar later met mijn toenmalige held (naast jos) kon gebeuren .

      Ik denk ook niet dat dit toen echt publiekelijk bekend was bij de tifosi want bij de tifosi stond ie er toch ook zeer goed op ?

      • + 0
      • 22 nov 2019 - 23:31
    • @RJHvandaag

      Maak je niet druk joh , er zijn wel ergere dingen om je druk om te maken

      • + 0
      • 22 nov 2019 - 23:41
  • RBH2019

    Posts: 1.980

    Vettel is 2,5 jaar jonger dan Hamilton en 8 jaar jonger dan Kimi. Die kan nog wel een poosje mee. Daarnaast was hij de laatste tijd vaak beter dan Leclerc. Ik zie het ze nog wel even volhouden met dit duo. Sowieso in 2020...

    • + 2
    • 22 nov 2019 - 11:58
    • Hij kan qua leeftijd nog wel wel een paar jaar mee. Maar maakt voor een 4 voudig kampioen onder druk teveel fouten. In concurrentie met Hamilton en Verstappen zie ik hem geen kampioenschap behalen. Dan is Leclerc met een snelle adjudant een betere oplossing voor Ferrari.

      • + 0
      • 22 nov 2019 - 12:37
    • Vettel lijkt een beetje overspannen de laatste paar jaar. Voelt de druk van de jonge jongens. Eerst al dat gedoe met Max, en nu met z'n teamgenoot.
      Hij zou misschien baat hebben bij een jaartje sabatical, maar idd nog niet afschrijven.

      • + 0
      • 22 nov 2019 - 13:38
  • GHM65

    Posts: 554

    Het gaat niet om de rijders maar het beleid en manier waarop er invulling en leiding gegeven wordt. Met nam Fer blinkt hier niet in uit. Sterker nog, al jaren een zorgenkindje.

    • + 0
    • 22 nov 2019 - 12:07
  • John6

    Posts: 3.824

    Ik neem aan dat Vettel in 2020 nog bij Ferrari rijd, stel dat Charles tegen gaat vallen dan hebben ze helemaal een probleem, als Vettel er in 2020 een zooitje van maakt dan zal zijn contract niet meer verlengt worden. Neem aan dat het zo zal gaan.

    • + 0
    • 22 nov 2019 - 12:53
  • LimboF1

    Posts: 4.208

    Ik denk ook dat hoe dan ook Vettel de sjaak gaat worden. Als ik alleen al kijk naar Rusland, dan zegt dat veel over de positie van Vettel binnen het team.
    Vettel is los van het kwalificeren de betere coureur sinds Singapore, dat mag duidelijk zijn.
    Ik blijf er ook bij dat Vettel ook weinig fout deed in de laatste race, maar de teambaas en Leclerc de schuldigen zijn en het nooit had hoeven gebeuren. Maar Vettel is erbij betrokken en om een of andere reden zit Vettel in het verdomhoekje.

    • + 0
    • 22 nov 2019 - 14:48
    • Kan jij vinden, maar zo’n beetje elke ex F1 coureur en een heel aantal experts vinden t gewoon Vettels domme actie. Meestal zeggen ze t alleen wat vriendelijker

      • + 0
      • 22 nov 2019 - 15:21
  • Leo

    Posts: 116

    Volgens mij heeft Seb nog een contract voor volgend jaar. 40 miljoen laat zelfs Ferrari niet zomaar gaan. Vettel zit nog 1 jaar bij Ferrari.

    • + 0
    • 22 nov 2019 - 15:10
    • Buurman

      Posts: 965

      Dat weet ik zo net nog niet. Raikkonen werd ook afgekocht voor een vergelijkbaar bedrag in 2009.

      • + 1
      • 22 nov 2019 - 16:04

AT Grand Prix van Oostenrijk

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AT Grand Prix van Oostenrijk

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Coureursprofiel

  • Team Ferrari
  • Punten 1.367
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Formule 1 kalender - 2020

Datum
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Spanje
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Spanje
13 - 15 maa
Australië
20 - 22 maa
Bahrein
3 - 5 apr
Vietnam
17 - 19 apr
China
1 - 3 mei
Nederland
8 - 10 mei
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21 - 24 mei
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5 - 7 jun
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12 - 14 jun
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26 - 28 jun
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3 - 5 jul
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17 - 19 jul
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31 - 2 aug
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28 - 30 aug
België
4 - 6 sep
Italië
18 - 20 sep
Singapore
25 - 27 sep
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9 - 11 okt
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23 - 25 okt
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30 - 1 nov
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13 - 15 nov
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27 - 29 nov
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Datum
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13 - 15 maa
Australië Albert Park
20 - 22 maa
3 - 5 apr
Vietnam Hanoi Circuit
17 - 19 apr
1 - 3 mei
Nederland Circuit Zandvoort
8 - 10 mei
21 - 24 mei
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5 - 7 jun
Azerbeidzjan Baku City Circuit
12 - 14 jun
26 - 28 jun
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3 - 5 jul
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17 - 19 jul
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31 - 2 aug
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28 - 30 aug
4 - 6 sep
Italië Monza
18 - 20 sep
25 - 27 sep
Rusland Sochi Autodrom
9 - 11 okt
23 - 25 okt
Verenigde Staten van Amerika Circuit of the Americas
30 - 1 nov
13 - 15 nov
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27 - 29 nov
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